Episode 42: Dr. Omar Baig

In this next installment in our ongoing BIPOC voices series, we are joined by Dr. Omar Baig. Dr. Baig completed his undergraduate medical education at Baylor College of Medicine before heading to Boston to complete his graduate training at the MGH/McClean psychiatry residency program. In this episode, Dr. Meeks and Dr. Poullos talk with Dr. Baig about the disability resources he utilized throughout his training, and his reasoning for pursuing psychiatry as a specialty.

Transcript

Lisa Meeks:

Doctors with disabilities exist in small, but impactful numbers. How do they navigate their journey? What are the challenges? What are the benefits to patients and to their peers? And What can we learn from their experiences?

Peter Poullos:

Join us as we explore the stories of Doctors, PA’s, Nurses, OT’s, PT’s, Pharmacists, Dentists, and other health professions with disabilities. We’ll also be interviewing the researchers and policy makers that drive medicine forward towards real equity and inclusion.

Lisa Meeks:

My name is Lisa Meeks.

Peter Poullos:

and I am Peter Poullos.

Lisa Meeks:

and we are thrilled to bring you the Docs with Disabilities podcast.

Sofia Schlozman:

Hello and welcome back to the Docs with Disabilities podcast. In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Omar Baig for the next installment in our ongoing BIPOC voices series. Dr. Baig completed his undergraduate medical education at Baylor College of Medicine before heading to Boston to complete his graduate training at the MGH/McClean psychiatry residency program. In this episode, Dr. Meeks and Dr. Poullos talk with Dr. Baig about his experience living in Houston, the disability resources he has utilizes throughout his training, and his reasoning for pursuing psychiatry as a specialty. We begin with an introduction from Dr. Baig.

Omar:

My name is Omar. Um, I'm currently a, um, psychiatry intern at Massachusetts General Hospital, um, in McClain. Um, I was originally born in- in Pakistan and sort of, um, lived between there and Dubai and Houston for the first seven years of my life. And then, um, in 2000, right at the turn of the Millennium, we permanently settled in Texas, and I had been there for the last 21 years up until spring of 2021. And now I'm in colder pastures.

Omar:

I- I am somebody with a disability. I was born without a right hand and most of my right forearm. Um, so that's sort of the apparent disability. And then the non-apparent side is I also, um, don't actually have any hearing on my right ear, um, which has become a little bit more relevant in the times of COVID, because I- I didn't realize how reliant I am on lip reading and the barriers that masks pose. 

Peter Poullos:

In what ways does your disability change the way you interact with patients and what sort of additional dimensions does it add to your practice and why do you feel that it's so important that we have this physical and mental diversity in healthcare?

Omar:

I think a lot of it feels like un- unwritten and un- and unspoken. So I think about one particular population that I get very excited about is the VA population, um, because often times they will be individuals that also have experienced limb loss or combat. Um, I remember when I used to, uh, at different portions of my life, I've worn a prosthesis and I would get occupational therapy, and most of the people that I would be getting therapy with would be, like, veterans.

Omar:

And so I- I think back as a med student when I would go to, um, the VA hospital in Houston, um, and, you know, people, oftentimes any patient can sometimes have their guard up when, you know, they are not too familiar with what the physician, um, like, interaction entails, but I think it was an, it was an easy way to kind of put people at ease, because I think somebody can see me and probably very clearly understand without me having to say that I've been in their shoes.

Omar:

I think just in the larger sense, um, I think the more I've progressed in my still infant or toddler medical career, I find that, um, so much of my learning happens from the diversity of the folks that I get to interact with, be it the supervisors and- and at this point, like, the residents that I'm meeting. And so that's as much an education as the book stuff, the clinical diagnoses, the- the exams and everything, um, is just sort of being in the hospital, in this setting and being around people whose life experiences are very different from mine.

Lisa Meeks:

That- that's incredible. Do you plan to work with individuals, uh, in the VA with- with vets as part of your long-term goal?

Omar:

It's an interesting thing. So the part of psychiatry that I'm most interested in is, uh, the psychiatric care of folks with medical illness. So, uh, it- it's called consult- consult liaison psychiatry. When the internist is seeing a patient who might have had, like, a traumatic accident or who's had, um, an exacerbation of heart failure, and then they find out that on the patient's problem list is- is, uh, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, and they realize that all these things have maybe been untreated and they are influencing the way that the person is living, um, and then you call in the consult liaison psychiatrist.

Omar:

Um so within that realm, I think I will probably get to interact a lot with veterans, um, with people that, you know, kind of maybe even look like me. Um, it's difficult because at my current institution, we don't have a VA or we do have a VA, but we're not affiliated with it, but I will try to pull some strings, and hopefully by the- the time the four years are over, I'll get some, experience with the VA population 'cause it's near and dear to me.

 

Peter Poullos:

You're more interested in inpatient medicine than outpatient, huh? I think that's, like, a minority of psychiatrists.

Omar:

Well, medicine almost got me.

Lisa Meeks:

(Laughs).

Omar:

I came into med school thinking that I was gonna become a psychiatrist. I, and, um, I almost went down the internal medicine psychiatry dual route, where there's like 10 to, I think, 12 programs in the country they’re five-year programs and you can sort of come out of there certified in both.

Omar:

And that was a big thing for me because I, once upon a time, I thought, could I even do specialties like internal medicine that are more, like, physically demanding? And it became very evident during my time at Baylor that I absolutely can. Um, much to the credit of mentors who were like, "No, no, you can do this. This is not a problem at all." Um, but the inpatient side definitely stuck. So I'm gonna be a psychiatrist. And at the time of this recording, the plan is gonna be inpatient.

Omar:

 The thing that really drew me to psychiatry is I think that the people that your helping in psychiatry are often on the periphery of whatever society they're a part of. And, um, and- and sometimes people with disabilities often find themselves in that position. I know I certainly did when I was in middle school, and you deal with all the things that a middle schooler deals with and bullying and- and and all those sorts of things. And only in high school, when I started taking courses on psychology and mental health and started realizing how alienated people with mental illness felt, you know, I couldn't feel that same sense of anxiety or depression or identify with that, but I definitely knew that feeling of being on the periphery. And I was like, oh, it would be neat to help those folks out.

 

[music transition]

Lisa Meeks:

You know, it's- it's interesting. You brought up, you know, that there might even be patients that look like you and, you know, growing up partially at least in Texas, as, uh, a Pakistani, um, native that is also a person with a disability that's visible and your- your hearing loss as well, that had to- to be hard. And maybe that's my assumption that it was harder kind of in the deep South being a person of color than it would be anywhere else.

Lisa Meeks:

But I'm curious about, you know, both your experiences growing up, but also in medicine, you know, how, when you have kind of encounters it feels like, or are discriminatory, are they usually coming from a place of disability, or do you think they're coming from a place of your BIPOC identity or both?

Omar:

Well, I would say first that it's- it's hard for me to reconcile Houston and the deep South and Pete might understand this because, you know, and I've never lived outside of Houston up until this point, but I would say, and maybe I sound like a homer, like, just cheering for Houston too much, but I would say it is as progressive as the city I'm currently in, in many ways, it's even more. 

Omar:

And geographically, I- I hear what you're saying, Lisa, in that, of course, this is one of the most Southern major cities in this country. I think the unique part about growing up as an immigrant in a city like Houston is that it's a city of, like, first and second-generation immigrants. And I didn't realize how big a difference that is when you look at like other cities, like in the Northeast or on the West Coast or...

Omar:

You know, people have, uh, a lineage of- of having come here years ago, their family, but it'll be many generations now. And so the experience can look very different. But in Houston it was not uncommon for me to encounter, you know, physicians in the hospital and physicians of, like, leadership and stuff that were, of my ethnicity, more of from places like Africa and- and- and Asia and even people with disabilities. And I encounter all those things here.

Omar:

You know, the question about any sort of discriminatory behavior that I might have experienced. I, I don't think I've ever explicitly experienced it, which I feel very, very fortunate about from patients. I would say in the instances where I've felt it, and it's not explicit, or somebody's hinted at something that it's like, oh, we got probably just a bias that they have, more so it happens in the realm of race than- disability.

Peter Poullos:

Houston is a very international city, it's sort of the gateway along with Miami to Latin America, and it's extremely diverse.

Omar:

In a way that, like, other cities are not, you know. Like you can have a diverse city in places like New York and- and, like, Boston, but it's, like, pockets of places where different cultures tend to stay. Whereas in Houston, which has very interesting zoning laws, and I think that probably plays a role, but all sorts of people are sort of intermixed, uh, amongst each other. So it's- it's a neat setup and I- I only really realized that after I left it, and I miss it. (laughs), I miss that part of Houston quite a bit.

Lisa Meeks:

Do you think you'll go back and practice in Houston?

Omar:

This is a good question. I think, I think for the specialty within psychiatry that I am interested in, consult liaison, I think I'm at a pretty good place for that. Mass Gen has a long history of leading the way in consultation liaison psychiatry, and the service here is so incredibly busy.

Omar:

But I- I think about how I fell in love with that type of psychiatry, it was by interacting with patients in Houston, it would be patients that would come into our safety net hospital who would have no experience with a psychiatrist before because they didn't have the resources for it. And while they're medically ill with, again, things like heart failure or end-stage renal disease, we would unearth that, oh, they probably are suffering from longstanding depression or other severe mental illnesses, and then they would see a psychiatrist. So I can certainly see, like, the need for consult liaison psychiatry in places like Texas, and so the short answer is, I'm not sure. (Laughing).

Sofia Schlozman:

In the next section, the conversation shifts to a discussion of residency and the challenges of navigating the uncertainty that comes with applying to residency programs without knowing for sure where one will ultimately end up practicing. Listen or read along as Dr. Baig shares his experiences and advice for evaluating residency programs.

Lisa Meeks:

You talked about the importance of having a community and to make sure that you are able to do everything that you need to, to manage life, have accommodations when needed, but when- when residents, many of, many medical students will be listening to this episode, and when they're applying to residency, as you know, I mean, you can apply wherever you want to apply and kind of self-select into areas, but you have no control over where you eventually match.

Lisa Meeks:

And that can be really difficult for people, especially people that might have the need for some sort of continuous care, or they need a specialist that is not in the city that they wind up matching in. So do you wanna talk about that for a little bit and how kind of, how that plays a role in disability and thriving in residency?

Omar:

Yeah. Wow. And the last bit that you said where you don't necessarily have control over where you end up, right, because you are putting in your preference and then programs are putting in their preferences and it goes into the algorithm, and it spits out where you end up. And so there's a lot of uncertainty and I- I never really considered that part within the context of- of disability. It's difficult. I think I was, I was fortunate in that places that I was very, very interested in kind of really helped ease my sense of angst, which I think is a natural thing to have, about what it would be like to practice there as a person with a disability.

Omar:

And they did it in several ways and I would encourage applicants and, you know, med students and even undergrads applying to med school to kind of think of these things. What is the experience of whatever program that you're applying to? What is their experience with other trainees with disabilities? If they haven't had that experience, which most programs will not have, especially like, a particular type of disability that you might have, what are their interactions with you when you're interviewing them, and what kind of questions are they asking?

Omar:

To me that was, like, a really, really big part of it. Definitely, there were instances during my interview trail where I would significantly move programs up because of the way they took an interest in what would've been my trajectory if I ended up in those places. It's a difficult thing though.  for me, I had lived in Houston for the last 20 years for med school. I sort of had stayed at Baylor and not come to the Northeast at that time, to one of these prestigious schools, because I had never lived by myself in college. And so med school was gonna be the first time I lived by myself, and I didn't want it to be completely so far away from the safety net of my family, just in case physically I couldn't handle living independently.

Omar:

A lot of that, again, angst was removed for residency because by, in the last four years, I've lived independently by myself. So it's a difficult thing. And the added dimension of having that uncertainty about where you might end up and then potentially needing care from particular specialists in a particular city, more than anything, you should just express those things when you're interviewing, and kind of go from there.

Peter Poullos:

Did you disclose your disability in your applications?

Omar:

I did. And it was an interesting thing because, in the Zoom interview rounds, you're seeing me from the shoulder up. So I don't have to share it, but I disclosed it because, one of the reasons I went into psychiatry was because of my disability, some portion of it because psychiatry's not as physically demanding, but the other portion of it, because I could identify with patients with psychiatric illness.

Omar:

So I did, and then as clunky as it sounds, I made it a point to, back away from the camera a little bit and let the interviewer, especially when it was the program director, see what I'm working with, like, this is, this is what I actually look like. Nobody asked that, but I think it's just good for people to kind of know. And then after that, you know, you ask your questions, like, "These are the things that I might need, and how do you think we can troubleshoot?"

 

[music transition]

Peter Poullos:

What sort of accommodations do you need, if any, in your current practice?

Omar:

I think for me always the big thing is like, typing. I have a little keyboard that I carry around with me where the keys are kind of spaced out. And so with my residual limb, my right arm, I can sort of strike the keys in a more efficient way, and so I can get up to like 70 words a minute, but I need that particular keyboard.

Omar:

And so I need that keyboard to be able to work with the different computers in the hospital and with the movable workstation, the computer on wheels. And so that's one of the big things. I think the other thing is when I'm on medicine services, which in our program, we do quite a bit of in our first year, there's obviously physical procedures, and sometimes those can be a little bit challenging. In the case of- of institution like Mass General, there's many, many resources and different teams that can do those procedures for you and kind of help you out. And so that helps.

Peter Poullos:

So do you not do procedures or, like, on a practical level, if you have done them, how have they helped you?

Omar:

Yeah, well, in med school, I made it a point to get my hands dirty. Like, in surgery and my OB rotations, I would suture, there was a lot of practice actually that went into it. Before I had the rotations, which we sort of very deliberately scheduled for the end of my clinical experiences, because I thought I would be more versed in being a med student by that point. I spent a lot of time in the Sim lab sort of independently, and I would practice suturing and we would have one of the Sim instructors kind of help me out, and doing, like, one-handed knot ties. And then when I actually got in the OR, I sort of devised a way to do it, I'll- I'll be it much slower than like a surgical resident.

Omar:

But yeah, I was, I was able, I was able to do it and it was a, it was a thing for me, like, I- I want this experience, and I wanna be able to do a good job at it. 

Peter Poullos:

For somebody listening to this who is going into their surgical rotation, like, how did you tie the knot with one hand?

Omar:

So there's instances where you can kind of have, I would always be with a surgical resident, I might have them hold, kind of be my second hand in some instances. And then in my case, you know, I have the residual limb, and so I would sometimes tie it around my right arm, and kind of do it that way.

Omar:

It didn't look pretty and it's difficult to describe, but I had a technique that, I mean, the one big thing you have to worry about in the surgical suite is keeping things sterile, and so that was a big challenge, but- but we figured out something that worked, and it wasn't, it wasn't very fast, but it worked.

Lisa Meeks:

I think that's really important. And there have been many medical students that are missing a forearm or, you know, there's several missing digits from their hand. And everyone has come up with different ways of addressing the procedural types of things. And I think what- what Pete is getting to is, one, for the listeners that are medical education, kind of administrators or faculty, I don't want there to be an assumption that an- an individual that's missing a limb cannot do something, right?

Lisa Meeks:

There are different obviously gradations to, to different types of limb loss, and- and people have gotten very creative with that. And you had mentioned earlier, if you had wanted to go into internal medicine and you're finding now, you know, when you're, when you're on this consult service, that for the most part, you could have done most things, and perhaps those procedures that you weren't comfortable doing, or the more surgical procedures rather, wouldn't have been things that you would've had to do on an internal medicine service, especially in a really big teaching hospital where, like you said, there are teams that come and start IVs and there are teams come in and do all of these other sorts of things. Would you say that's accurate?

Omar:

Yeah. 100%. You know, the med school is very good with me, and the instructors that I work with in like letting me fail. - I used that term several times during the course of my residency interviews, like, people would ask, "What is one thing that you might need as a person with a disability?" I said, "Just a space and the feeling of enough comfort to take the risk and sometimes not succeed and for you to not get uncomfortable with that."

Omar:

'Cause it's not pretty, like, you know, the thing, like, what Pete is getting at, like, how would you actually do it? Right? You can talk as much as we want about being in the lab on your own accord and trying these out. They don't look pretty, and you fail way more times than you succeed and you put in, you know, hundreds of hours to try these things out for, you know, the matter of minutes when you're actually in the but, I- I was very lucky that my program then, and then my current institution is very patient.

Peter Poullos:

What you said earlier is something I hear a lot that you don't want a less rigorous experience and you don't wanna be let off the hook for doing things and that you'd rather try than not. And I think that's im- important because sometimes people feel like disabled students or people, claiming disability are often looking for a way out or for a more cushy experience, but I find that's not the case.

Lisa Meeks:

Yeah, I would, I would agree. I think it's really the medical school administrators that are afraid to fail, this failure to fail phenomenon, not just with students with disabilities, but all students. And- and we know that this exists, everybody wants people to be successful, and we see this a lot with students with disabilities where everyone's, you know, kind of this heightened anxiety, especially because there may be legal ramifications if they feel the student has not been fully accommodated.

Omar:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Lisa Meeks:

And what I find is more effective is just to have an open line of communication, which it sounds like you really had incredible mentors and faculty at your medical school, and everybody kept things very real. Like, let's go in and try this and we may fail and then we'll try a different way, and we'll see where your strengths are with every student, there are strengths and weaknesses. And- and, you know, as far as specialty, we lean into the areas where- where we find a lot of strengths and interest.

Sofia Schlozman:

In the next section Dr. Baig elaborates on the resources and advisors that helped make his medical school experience so positive. Listen or read along as Dr. Baig shares the many steps that Baylor took to enable him to innovate and to succeed as a student with a disability.

Omar:

Yeah. I mean, uh, uh, my med school was very thoughtful in the way that they provided me with resources. We- we had an ADA coordinator who was wonderful and who was very familiar with a lot of Dr. Meeks your work, and so we would often refer to that. And then at the very beginning of sort of my med school experience, I was paired up with a mentor who herself had a disability, a hearing impairment. And so, you know, a little bit different, I mean, I have, I have a hearing impairment as well, but, you know, when we're doing a physical exam, she didn't have to necessarily deal with the challenges that I have to when it comes to doing a percussion on a patient, during the abdominal exam or, doing the two-hand portions of a neurologic exam.

Omar:

But I think it helps when you're, you have a mentor who has some ingenuity when it comes to their clinical practice because you can brainstorm. And thinking of being in a setting where I'm not afraid to make mistakes. When her and I would practice physical exams, I certainly felt that way, like, there's no pressure, I can make mistakes and that's okay, and we're gonna figure it out.

Lisa Meeks:

Yeah. And, you know, I think, and we can go and name her, I think we can give her a shout out.

Omar:

Yeah. (Laughing). We can, 'cause she, I think she's the one who's responsible for this.

Omar:

Yeah. Dr. Ludwig, phenomenal mentor who I still keep in touch with and- and who I knew for the duration of the four years that I was at, Baylor.

Lisa Meeks:

I just wanna say I'm a big fan of Dr. Ludwig as well, and I'm excited. I think we have our first paper coming out in the next few months.  So I've loved getting to work with her and she is directly responsible for connecting with you. 

Lisa Meeks:

You had what seems like an incredible experience at Baylor. I'm sure that there were, you know, trying times, but overall it's, you know, you've described the experience, as very thoughtful and I think a lot of students don't have that. And so I'm wondering, you know, you talked about the ADA coordinator, but also Dr. Ludwig, I'm wondering if you can speak to the critical nature of- of both of those things, of mentorship and of kind of an informed disability resource professional.

Omar:

Yeah. Well, I think they- they, in my situation, it really, the two parties sort of felt like they complimented each other. The way it would work is we would have classes on Wednesday where we would practice the physical exam in small groups and Dr. Ludwig and I would practice, you know, me doing things in these sort of unconventional ways, and then before I would actually have to do the physical exam in a simulated setting, I would speak formally with the ADA coordinator and say, "Hey, these are the things that I might need."

Omar:

And I- I- I believe there was a degree of communication between Dr. Ludwig and the ADA coordinator as well, who probably deserves a shout-out, her name was Ms. Mikiba Morehead, and she was absolutely wonderful.

Lisa Meeks:

 I'm gonna double on your shout out Mikiba Morehead, we know you're not at Baylor anymore.

Omar:

(Laughs).

Lisa Meeks:

You are amazing. She is amazing.

Omar:

Yeah. And- and, you know, I think very different persona- like, style because, you know from working with Dr. Ludwig, some very strong opinions on things. And I think for me it was helpful because oftentimes when I doubt the efficacy of a certain technique, she'd be like, "No, of course it'll work. Just try it out." And so that helped. And then with- with Ms. Morehead, she was all ears. She kind of just wanted to absorb everything that I had to share, and I think those, you know, the style for each party sort of suited their role because what I needed from Dr. Ludwig was really guidance on how I might do these things and kind of figuring out the unknown where she's been in the patient room and done these physical exam maneuvers so she can validate, yeah, this is a correct way to do it.

Omar:

And then from Mikiba, just her being all ears and sort of taking it all in and then passing it along to administration. So, you know, so it felt like an embarrassment of riches. And I- I don't wanna say the word spoiled because I think everybody deserves what I had, but I very much realized that probably most students in the country don't, and that's unfortunate, but it's a good model.

 

[music transition]

Peter Poullos:

How do you think that medical institutions can commit to shifting the burden of change away from students and doctors with disabilities so that they become more proactive rather than reactive?

Omar:

Well, I think- think about the people that are, you know, spearheading your program and the people who are sort of in charge of things like mentorship, if you don't have physicians, if you, if you've never been a place where a physician with a disability might feel welcomed enough to stick on as faculty and assume these roles of mentorship, then students will never have access to that either, you know. And so I think a lot of it is hearing what it is that students need.

Omar:

One of the neat experiences that I've had is when I've introduced people to things like Docs with Disabilities or the Stanford Medicine Abilities Coalition, oftentimes people without disabilities, they will take an interest in it and they will wanna watch the YouTube video or listen to the podcast on their own accord and that kind of shifts, you know, you talk about the sense of responsibility and it's a big weight sometimes. That kind of shifts some of that away, when people take the onus themselves. I've introduced you to it, but now you're gonna do the work of listening to these things. And that's kind of cool. And I've- I've gotten to experience that both in Texas and over here.

Peter Poullos:

Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. People really do need to take it upon themselves to educate themselves in all of the ways that disability is diversity and how we can improve access. And thanks for the shout out for SMAC, (Laughing).

Omar:

It was, it was not planned. It was not planned. I- I, genuinely, those are the things that I refer people to, and they seem to enjoy it.

Lisa Meeks:

Honestly, I think in the last five years, the amount of support in this space has just been immeasurable. And I think Pete's group and the mentorship program that they do, is something that has filled an incredibly big void for people. You know, where the, where the podcast is, you know, is deemed to be kind of asynchronous mentoring, right? You can get some tidbits and some help, like somebody that is listening to your story, may be able to take something away from it that will help them navigate the system in the absence of a mentor, but having that relationship with a person, even if they don't have the same disability as you, just somebody who has had that life experience, I think is incredibly valuable.

Lisa Meeks:

And if we are going to create, uh, a fruitful pathway of physicians with disabilities, we are going to have to provide some of these support systems that especially at- at critical times, like the transition to residency, right? And then again, the transition into practice and make sure that people have someone there to not only mentor them, but to sponsor them. We know that people with disabilities are less likely to get opportunities to engage in research or to give talks, sometimes because those spaces are just inaccessible. 

 

[music transition]

Peter Poullos:

I know you've been to some of our meetings-

Omar:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Peter Poullos:

How many have you, how many have you been to and what has been your experience,

Omar:

I found it incredibly, I think valuable because, you know, with a space where I was getting to interact with people with disabilities, involved in healthcare in sort of all different avenues, you know, the retired physicians, the, resident, somebody like me who at that time was a med student, the undergraduate student. It was a neat space.

Omar:

I remember like the small groups and sort of brainstorming ideas and answering questions and getting these different perspectives. You know, the thing that Dr. Meeks says where the most important thing is not that somebody has a disability that's very similar to yours, so they can give you practical advice, I think oftentimes, and this was the case with Dr. Ludwig, it's just them having experienced challenges that are similar and kind of the way of thinking that results from that.

Omar:

And you can learn a lot from the way that somebody thinks and the way that they approach problems. And that's why I think things like SMAC and, you know, uh, Docs with Disabilities is, is invaluable for, nobody can really say that they've been in my shoes, and I can't say that about anybody else, but, you know, we kind of pick up on the ways that we think and approach problems and that's neat.

Peter Poullos:

Nice. Thanks.

Sofia Schlozman:

In this final section, Dr. Meeks, Dr. Poullos, and Dr. Baig discuss the concept of "paying it forward", and how students with disabilities who have had positive experiences in medical training can help others to have more positive experiences as well. Listen or read along as our hosts and guest share resources and strategies that they recommend to students with disabilities.

Lisa Meeks:

 it sounds like you were introduced to this idea of kind of getting the education on- on how to include people with disabilities from Dr. Morehead and you had the mentorship from Dr. Ludwig, and you had such a good experience coming in, but not everyone does. 

Lisa Meeks:

And I know you've talked about paying it forward and how important that is, especially when we have so few physicians with disabilities.  this podcast and recording this podcast is- is actually one way, (laughs), of paying it forward, right? It's one way of providing mentorship to students with disabilities. Do you have any other things that you have thought about doing?

Omar:

Yeah, I mean, I- I think for me the big thing is I- I always try to think, like, what was most helpful for me and it was when people were visible. And so, like, this week, I'll be, I'll be in all the Zoom interview dinners that we have with our applicants who are, you know, thinking about the MGH Psychiatry Program, the med students who are thinking about the residency program, and I'll be there, and, you know, I'll try to find a way to sneak in that I'm somebody with a disability and for, you know, however many applicants there are, most of them will, they won't really find that relevant, but maybe there will be that one person that does, 'cause that's the experience that I had when I would, you know, be going on these interviews.

Omar:

And so I think that's a big portion. It's, you know, it's been challenging and I find myself grappling with it quite often as an intern, because it's such a shift from, like, your final year as a med student where you have a lot of time and you're able to do all the advocacy work that you want, to then being an intern where you have no time, (laughs). But the plan now and the plan that it usually is like during the course of a four-year stay, like, as a med student or as a resident, you know, first you sort of figure out your bearings and then, you know, you kind of expand and in our institution, there's a medical student advocacy group, there's, uh, a residency advocacy group for people with disabilities and, you know, taking a more prominent role in those, in those spaces.

Omar:

And then things like SMAC. I- I got so much from it, you know, and I feel like, my goodness, there's so much to give back. Right now, I'm accumulating all those experiences, some of the sort of the difficulties of being an intern and now being in a system that's different from the system that I was, uh, was experiencing at Baylor, and I'm learning how to navigate that. And, you know, next year I'll be able to sit at those SMAC meetings again and be able to share that with people.

Peter Poullos:

Have you been working with Dorothy Tolchin and the disabilities group there at Harvard?

Omar:

We spoke sort of early on when I first arrived in Boston. We haven't made much contact because I've sort of just been going through the medicine portion and now the psychiatry portion. 

Lisa Meeks:

Yeah. There's some really good stuff going on at Harvard and shout out to- to all of it. There's just so many different pockets of things going on there, and, uh, Pete and I are so blessed to be able to work with some folks there.

Peter Poullos:

They have a group called DMDWG, Disabilities in Medicine and Dentistry Working Group that is creating like curricular change at Harvard. They have the disability symposium at HSM. And they also have, HACHD, which is HMS Allies in Chronic Illness, Health Conditions, and Disabilities. And that's, the focus is support for students with disabilities and their allies to increase visibility and- and also to establish mentorship opportunities. 

Lisa Meeks:

The unconditional publishing group, Samantha Sadler and Jenny Rowley, just incredible, incredible the work they're doing as well.

Lisa Meeks:

And I know in the GME space, especially in medicine, we've done a lot of work. and Omar, I encourage you to get involved in a group that Pete and I are on, which is called DIGME, which is Disability and Graduate Medical Education, and it's, shifting in January to a community of practice and a listserv of, you know, support for- for residents with disabilities, so that'll be exciting.

Lisa Meeks:

But I wonder if you could share with the audience some of your favorite resources. I know you've mentioned SMAC and you've mentioned our podcast, but I'm sure there are a number of other resources that you have found that maybe people can navigate their way, too, and we'll be sure to put them in the, in the show notes.

Omar:

I think Disability is Visibility. Alice Wong and I- I believe you've had Alice Wong.

Lisa Meeks:

Oh, yeah. Alice is a dear friend from UCSF. Yeah. She's great.

Omar:

A phenomenal podcast that I think sort of dissects, really that would be the word, dissects, the experience with people with disabilities in, like, a really, really elegant way. And so I find that to be, to be very, very useful when it comes to, like, physical exam maneuvers. 

Omar:

It's called the Stanford Medicine 25. It's like a series where they go through physical exam maneuvers.  I always found it so helpful. Like it- it goes through, like the abdominal exam, the cardiac exam, the knee exam, the liver exam, and it gets into the nitty-gritty details of these things. But if you're somebody with any sort of physical limitation, one of the most valuable things that you can do is kind of figure out what it is that's the, like the gold standard of doing these physical exam maneuvers.

Omar:

And then from that, figure out, okay, how can I change it so that I can make it work for myself? And so I would often refer to the Stanford Medicine 25, it's like a series and it kind of has videos and then instruction on how to do these physical exam maneuvers, 

 

[music transition]

Lisa Meeks:

Well, gentlemen,  it's always a pleasure, uh, to do anything with the great Pete Poullos, but Omar, I would love the opportunity to get to know you more and to just follow your trajectory And I hope that you'll become involved in- in more of these things as time allows and that we can get you involved in some of the advocacy, but also some of the work that we do in policy to build a- a more inclusive, thoughtful, I love that word that you used to describe Baylor, thoughtful undergraduate and graduate medical education experience for people with disabilities.

Lisa Meeks:

And I think the future is so bright and the more physicians we have talking about disability and in that space and- and visible, I think the better armed we will be to discount the stereotypes that people have about disability in the, in the medicine space. So I just wanna thank you so much for- for coming on the show today and, and for what you've already started to do to give back, I love the sentiment, and I think that this is a great, a great first start. 

Omar:

Well, let me just say, when Dr. Ludwig, sort of was connecting me, I was completely fanboying over the two of you. r. Meeks, I know you speak to probably several hundred students a year, but I first reached out to you in 2017 and I've been f fanboying over you since, and then Dr. Poullos, I've been sort of following your endeavors with SMAC for the last couple of years as well. So this is truly, truly an honor for me. 

Peter Poullos:

It's been a real pleasure talking to you, Omar. Thanks so much for joining us.

Lisa Meeks:

Thank you so much. 2017, that was a long time ago, but I'm glad we connected, (laughing), and I'm so glad I got to see your smiling face today and to chat with you. And I know you're gonna do great things and have a blast in Boston, it's a great place and a great training space. 

 

Sofia Schlozman:

To our guest, Omar Baig, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. We are so grateful for the wonderful advice and resources that you have shared, and I am certain that your story will have an impact on many of our listeners as they consider the next steps in their medical career. We wish you all the best as you continue your medical training. To our audience, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. If you have not yet listened to the other installments in our BIPOC series, we strongly encourage you to do so. We hope you will subscribe to our podcast and tune in next time.

Sofia Schlozman:

This podcast is a production of the Stanford Medicine, Stanford Medical Abilities Coalition, the Stanford Department of Radiology, and the University of Michigan Medical School Department of Family Medicine MDisability initiative. The opinions on this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of their respective institutions. It is released under creative commons attribution, non-commercial, non-derivative license. This episode was produced by Pete Poullos, Lisa Meeks, Sofia Schlozman, and Jacob Feeman.