In the fourth installment in our series on BIPOC voices Dr. Woolridge and Dr. Meeks discuss Dr. Woolridge’s journey through medical school as a black man with a disability, the challenges of receiving accommodations for a cognitive disability, and what needs to change to make medicine more welcoming to BIPOC individuals and people with disabilities.
Transcript
Lisa Meeks:
Doctors with disabilities exist in small but measurable numbers. How did they navigate their journey? What were the challenges? What are the benefits to patients and to their peers? What can we learn from their experiences? My name is Lisa Meeks, and I am thrilled to bring you the Docs With Disabilities podcast.
Join me as I interview Docs, Nurses, Psychologists, OT’s, PT’s, Pharmacists, Dentists, and the list goes on. I’ll also be interviewing the researchers and policy makers that ensure medicine remains an equal opportunity profession.
Sofia Schlozman:
Hello, and welcome back to the Docs with Disabilities. In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Daniel Woolridge for the fourth installment in our ongoing series on voices of Black, Indigenous, People of Color with Disabilities on Medicine. Listen or read along as Dr. Meeks and Dr. Woolridge discuss Dr. Woolridge’s journey through medical school as a black man with a disability, the challenges of receiving accommodations for a cognitive disability, and what needs to change to make medicine more welcoming to BIPOC individuals and people with disabilities. We begin with an introduction from Dr. Woolridge.
Daniel Woolridge:
My name is Daniel Woolridge. I am a clinical fellow in general pediatrics at UCSF. And I not only identify as a physician, but as a black physician who has the pronouns he, him. And who has a disability of mild or surface dyslexia. And I am very happy to talk to you about my journey today.
Lisa Meeks:
Well, Daniel, I am so excited to talk to you. I really enjoyed our time together and just getting to know you as a person. And I’m super excited to provide you with an opportunity to share your story today. And I think we were going to start kind of prior to medical school. And we're really gonna get into the nitty-gritty about what it means to be at that intersection of race and disability and trying to bring those identities into medicine. So, why don't you start with your story?
Daniel Woolridge:
For many of us this story starts not when we first entered medicine, but very, very far upstream. When we were pretty much deciding on that dream to become a doctor and really, really getting into all the nitty-gritty of the work and support that goes along with that.
And I never thought that I had a disability, even though, as I came to find out from my parents, when I came to private school in high school to a predominantly white institution that I was struggling in my classes in a way that I had not struggled before. All of a sudden assignments were taking longer, it seemed like I wasn't able to abstract information or get the critical thinking done as quickly as others and my peers and definitely not knowing how to deal with that, imposter syndrome was incredibly real.
And what I did not realize is many of my teachers were giving me informal accommodations for all of my assignments. They would say things like it's completely fine if you're not done with the test, please just come to my office, can you give me a date on when you can get this assignment in. Just all of these very accommodating gestures that I didn't realize were informal forms of actual accommodations that other students could receive and deserve to receive because of a disability that they had that was diagnosed and that was known.
And I was getting these informal accommodations, and at the same time the school educational counselor actually did reach out to my parents right as I started high school asking them if I had ever been tested for a learning disability, because of my issues with classes. And my parents having just worked on getting me into this private school, I have a feeling listeners can identify with just how that might land, knowing how hard you and your family have worked. And to essentially have someone who was a white woman at the time say, "Oh, you know, have you ever thought about getting your son or your child screened for a disability?" So needless to say, my parents very much took that as a racial affront and very much told the school, "Our son is not disabled. This is very inappropriate. How dare you? He has worked very hard. We have worked very hard to be here."
[music]
That conversation was closed and I was able to get informal accommodations right up until college when all of a sudden I did not have the trust or honor system of my very small cohort of teachers anymore.
And I was in a university system and my grades were just plummeting. And I felt that I did not deserve to be in this very elite institution. And I started to internalize really a lot of those things that out in the media we hear about black students and stereotype threat. And that was when I first really was like, "Oh, no, can I actually do this and become a doctor?" and fortunately, at that time, one of my advisors, who is the associate dean of biological sciences, a wonderful woman by the name of Marjorie Thompson, rest in peace and rest in power. She is unfortunately no longer with us. She actually told my parents that I should consider getting tested for a learning disability.
And that pretty much having it been the second time that this had come to my parents, at that point, they felt comfortable enough really talking with each other. And then, asking me if I think that this is what I needed. And that was the first time that we had a conversation together about me getting tested, me getting evaluated for a disability and what the process like that would entail, and really just me getting what I needed to succeed and me getting what I deserved. And what was absolutely necessary for me to operate in this world that has so many barriers for many different folks of many different communities.
And that was when I got tested and when I started to receive accommodations. Once I had my diagnosis, I felt definitely like a weight had been lifted, things just seemed much more doable. I had access to all of these programs like Kurzweil for audio reading, and all of these note-taking techniques and all of these resources from the disability student services. However, my parents were still very cautious and they were just like, "Do not let anybody know about this. That's your business. It's not business that everyone needs to know. Don't share that business with anybody else."
And I very much internalized that and really just kept that part of my identity very much covered. I didn't talk about it. I would do everything I needed to get accommodations from my school, but otherwise I did not talk about my learning disability. Again it was like, "Well, you have this. You're getting what you need. Case closed." And I thought that that was it.
[music]
And as we all know, your identity is never done with you. It is a part of you and when you suppress it, all you do is continue to hurt yourself because this is a part of yourself that you are essentially putting a lot of work in to really hide from the world and hide from yourself. And it only leads to your own internal strife and later destruction. And so, I did not really, really start saying, "Okay. This is me and this is a part of my experience of being a black and a disabled person” until residency when I started to run into standardized testing issues. And that is when really I was at the point where I cannot hide this from myself or from the world any longer. And as I started going on my journey at that point really being forced to own my identity, I found others who also identified as black or Latinx or BIPOC, who had had similar struggles with test taking, with getting recognized, and really with not knowing how to navigate this space.
[Music]
I identify so much with that feeling of isolation, and I also understand where my parents were coming from and saying, "You don't share that with the rest of the world, because of just the generational trauma that the black community has experienced in this nation by just essentially raising our voice for our own self-determinism, for anything."
And so I can definitely imagine they were looking at it from the standpoint of something punitive. If you let the world know, you will be punished. And, you know, that's the reason my parents thought that is no fault of their own and every fault of essentially the system and the nation we live in that says that these things about you make you weak, these things about you make you undesirable, these things about you will come back to haunt you if you let the world know that they are there. So I definitely understand where that comes from. However, personally and maybe this will resonate with listeners, but it's, it's really led to more impediments for me. I really, really want to drive home a point that covering doesn't really ever leaded to any resolution other than just further problems that you'll have to deal with later.
Sofia Schlozman:
In this next section, Dr. Woolridge discusses his experiences in medical school more specifically. Listen or read along as Dr. Meeks and Dr. Woolridge explore the challenges of embracing all parts of one’s identity while in medical education.
Lisa Meeks:
As you navigated medical school, was there, was there anything that sticks out to you that where you felt like this is a unique barrier to black males?
Daniel Woolridge:
It's not a secret that medical schools are not diverse places. Definitely, the barrier that showed up was very much an internal struggle of how much do I amplify this? I knew from my time in college how to logistically go about getting the resources I needed and all of that, however, I definitely felt still the need to cover that part of my identity. I was one of just six black students in my medical school class out of 125. And so, much of what I did, even at a medical school in California, was viewed through a lens of like, "Well, you're a black person, and essentially like, are you qualified to be here?"
It would show up in many, many interesting and subtle ways, I remember one year, we jumped to a whole eight black students in medical school out of 125. And one of the faculty actually came to the dean's, one of the older faculty and said, "You know, I noticed that the makeup of the student body here at the medical school is changing, and I just want to make sure that we are choosing qualified students." I know. And that, that, that's the shocker.
And I would love for everyone to just sit and percolate on that. Just eight black students was enough for a faculty to say, "Things are changing. I don't feel comfortable with it and I wanna make sure that, you know, we are choosing the dog whistle term ‘qualified’ students.'"
That's a, that's a verbal barrier that we put up really to create stereotype threat for black and indigenous folks. this whole notion of qualified individuals. And so, that, you can imagine that, that just made me further cover up my identity, because I at that point was just like, "Okay. Well, I'm not just a black person. I'm a black person with a disability”, and this whole notion of qualification, it really made me very cautious of opening up about my disability.
It’s so interesting how we see the black community through almost a utilitarian or a quality aspect which we really have to think about where that comes from, because at the end of the day with a population that was forcibly brought here, and was first exploited for their labor, and then treated as expendable later on when they could no longer be forcibly employed. You know, this notion of utility, this notion of qualification and quality really, really can speak to something much more insidious about our society with how we view people, particularly as useful tools. And I even sitting here now just speaking about it, I've internalized a lot of that. And I have a feeling many folks have internalized a lot of that, because in letting others know about our experiences particularly struggles we've had to go through, and not, you know, struggles that we've triumphed over, it brings a sense of uselessness to not just us, but to the rest of society that we don't have use. You are of little use. That really just is very, very disabling in and of itself to really be just be dealing with that whole stream of thinking. As a black person, I really have to prove that I am of use and that I am stronger than anything that can be thrown at me, therefore, a disability is not- it should not exist in that space.
And that is, that is the tension I feel that I've been grappling with, that I felt in medical school, that really informed how vocal I was about my disability because, I felt that it was going to really, really move things into this realm of quality. Was I a qualified medical student? And therefore, a qualified doctor.
Lisa Meeks:
The term qualified is supposed to speak to everyone who's coming into the environment-
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
… but so often times the only time that it is brought up-
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
… as a, qualifier-
Daniel Woolridge:
Exactly.
Lisa Meeks:
… is when somebody has a disability. And we're going to then make them jump through 10,000 hoops, right? Why are they here? Or if you have a BIPOC identity and at baseline there's a question of why you're here? And the assumption that no matter what you do or say, your qualifications are lower than anybody else coming in.
Daniel Woolridge:
Correct.
Lisa Meeks:
And having to learn knowing this, right? Many of my black friends and, and former students and, and a lot of members of the BIPOC population have said, "I can't be disabled right now, because I'm too busy being black or I'm too busy being brown or I'm too busy being, one identity."
Like for, for me, walking into a space as a white woman there aren't a lot of assumptions that are made about me. And if they are, I usually get the benefit of the doubt, right?
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
… in those assumptions, but, you know, for somebody that's a, a member of the BIPOC community or a member of the disability community walking in or rolling in to a medical education space. There are all of these assumptions that do the complete opposite of giving somebody the benefit of the doubt. And so, people have just said that the cognitive energy that it takes just to be in the space every day, right? The amount of thinking and positioning and looking out for landmines, if you will, and trying to figure out the curriculum and the hidden curriculum and the hidden curriculum for a BIPOC person. They just say, "I don't have time to be disabled. I cannot bring that identity to, you know, to this space, because, honestly, it just would be too much."
[music]
In medical school, specifically, did you ever think about this kind of philosophically like I can't, I can't do this because this other identity is so much work?
Daniel Woolridge:
Did I ever feel like I had to make a choice of just I can't be disabled today? I cannot really, really speak to this. I can't navigate this today. And I can only just be black today. I mean that, that very much, Lisa, resonates with me, and resonates I feel with so many of us because I mean it is, even now that's the question like, "Do I have time to do both?"
And it is exhausting to just, just go through the mental, like you said, the cognitive energy and exercise of just like how do I navigate both? And definitely in the state of medical education currently and in just the state of healthcare currently, as we're seeing with this pandemic, you know, there are just so few doctors of color, not just BIPOC physicians, but just, for example Southeast Asian physicians just there are so few and things are moving in a positive direction, but if we think about it, it's a very slow positive direction. So I would call stagnation out on that one in terms of how much more diverse we're getting. And because of that, because we are so just not diverse at baseline. So much of my cognitive energy had to be spent responding to assaults against my blackness.
And one example, and this always sticks out in my mind. This was at the time of Ferguson, so I'm already setting the stage right now. So everybody's hairs are standing on end right now. And we were learning about connective tissue diseases and rheumatological diseases. And then, the professor who is a faculty, he is a doctor at my medical school, he was essentially providing examples of issues with gait, issues with, you know, like range of motion, of their extremities. And then, he puts his hands up and he's like it's even hard to do things like this and say, "Stop. Don't shoot."
Space/music?
Daniel Woolridge:
And he, he assaulted all aspects of my identity, you know?
Lisa Meeks :
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Daniel Woolridge:
Like the disability aspect with, you know, what people can and can't do and making very light of that, and also the trauma of being black. And that, that's an example of just, you know, like occurrences that I wish were uncommon. They, they weren't exactly common, but they were not irregular, but with, with the setting like that, that is essentially like how I had to navigate space.
And so, there are moments where I'm just like, "Okay. What I have time and leverage to actually speak to right now is my blackness, because I know where the people are, the champions are who will help me really, you know, speak truth the power in this situation." And an example of that is after the professor said that, one of the other black classmates walked directly over to the Dean's Office, told her what had happened.
And then, the very next day, the Dean of Graduate Medical Education for the entire campus sat in for this man's apology, which I wish I could say it was even much of an apology. Note to readers. There is a very simple and easy way to apologize. And if you feel like, you know, your heart and the guilt is coming as you do it, that's how, you know, you're doing a right apology.
And I found that because there were these, these assaults against my blackness, I had to respond to that more quickly. I mean, and this was at the time of white coats for black lives and, you know, not just Michael Brown, but Breonna Taylor was just a few years away, like this was at a time where, you know, we were essentially like bubbling to this reckoning that we're seeing now and Black Lives Matter was mounting, and medical students are starting to raise their voices about it.
And so, that was definitely a time where did feel like I did have to choose. And I did choose my identity as a black person because I felt that there would be more receptivity, you know, I felt that speaking to my struggles with that identity, at that time, it's almost like the advocacy playbook we all do. It was a timely issue-
Lisa Meeks:
Oh yeah.
Daniel Woolridge:
Because we're going through an evolution, with how we see race. And we've now moved to a place where if you do say, "Hey, you know, that sounds like something that reeks of white supremacy." Even being able to say white supremacy in academic space, we're at a very different place right now. And so, I definitely felt because of that I had to make the choice.
And that's the issue. The issue is that we feel that we have to make this choice that we're put in this position where we have to choose, because we're made to feel that, you know, there's not time to be both, and therefore, not time to be our full and authentic selves.
[music]
Sofia Schlozman:
In the next section, Dr. Meeks references the AAMC’s Special Report on Black Males in Medicine. This 2015 report, titled “Altering the Course: Black Males in Medicine”, asserts that the number of black males applying and matriculating to medical school has decreased from 1978 to 2014. Listen or read along as Dr. Meeks and Dr. Woolridge discuss how to improve these numbers and better support BIPOC individuals seeking to enter the medical field.
Lisa Meeks:
The AAMC has put out that special report on black males in medicine, we know that sadly the numbers are declining and we're trying, you know, more and more interventions, ways of supporting people, uh, from the BIPOC community to enter medicine, but we're failing.
Daniel Woolridge:
Yes.
Lisa Meeks:
We're absolutely failing. And this doesn't even include when we talk about, you know, the intersection of race and disability. That doesn't even include that particular population.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And so, what are we doing wrong? What, what do we need to do? What do you think are some of the ways that we can improve?
Daniel Woolridge:
I believe it was a quote from Audre Lorde who said the first revolution is internal. And really believe that. And I think it's basically the revolution, the internal revolution that everyone needs to go through is this whole notion of having our cake and eating it too.
And what do I mean by that? I mean that, for example, the AAMC has most certainly put out reports about the, you know, the very low numbers of black males in medicine and the disappearing numbers. And at the same time, one of the first barriers that presented itself with me getting accommodations for standardized testing came from the AAMC, from their accommodations review board.
We cannot say that we want these populations, but then still keep the barriers that prevent them from getting in here, because we, we benefit from those barriers in some way. We've grown used to having those barriers. And so, what needs to happen is we need to really ask ourselves, "Do we really want things to change?" Because the way things are, the reason things are so stagnant, and so terrible the way they are is because, you know, I, I will just say, I don't think all of our hearts are fully in it.
And is it a part of the fact that we just have a very homogeneous hegemonic structure to all these institutions? Absolutely. Like it is statistically impossible to just have every institution, being run by white men. That's statistically impossible with the number of different communities that exist in this country.
So that means that the system is set up so that we actually allow easier passage for these individuals to get to those positions. And the question is, do we want that to change? Do we want that to change? And I think that's the biggest question we need to ask ourselves. We just need to first decide with that internal revolution, do we actually want things to change?
And for power holders and decision makers, they have a very different revolution internally than, you know, someone myself who has essentially existed outside of the institution or at the margins of the institution, because I don't benefit and I don't have any power in this space, but these individuals at the top do. And in order for us to get this world where there are more black men in medicine, to get these worlds where we do eliminate these health disparities, and to open up space for individuals to come through and speak to all aspects of their identity and be authentic.
Well, I guess we have to be authentic, you know, first in saying, "Do we actually want this?" We can't bring in people l who are authentically themselves if you're not being authentic and wanting them to come." And we really have to think about like what policies we have that are creating barriers for those, and if there are policies there, how are we benefiting from those barriers and from those policies? Because, If you're the power holder, and you truly want equity, it means that you will have to give something up. And it reminds me of that very old quote that when you come from privilege, equity feels like oppression. And so, I just want all these institutions to think about, what it is they have to give up? We cannot say that we want things to change, but we still like having our buddies who look just like us at the top.
Lisa Meeks:
I think about diversity and I think about inclusion and I think about those things as two separate things. Institutions talk about diversity in terms of numbers, right? How many African-American applicants did we have? How many people matriculated? how many underrepresented students in medicine do we have? we have 7%. We have 10%. We have 20%.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And then, I think about the environment that, that those individuals are, are stepping into.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And is it an inclusive environment i.e. not only are we bringing you here, we value you, we want to know what your experience is. And Do we build community standards together, right? or is it diversity and we let you in, but you have to assimilate.That's not inclusion. That's kind of permission to be in that space. And I think that, that perpetuates that kind of stereotype threat or belief system that you don't belong there.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's so fascinating, Lisa, how many different acronyms existed. One of my favorites was at the UC Berkeley School of Public Health, us and some students of various different marginalized backgrounds came up with what we call the DICE committee, the Diversity Inclusion Committee and Equity Council. The crazy thing is how we have narrowly defined diversity to where we need to include these other parts of the acronyms to make sure we're not missing anything. it's like diversity is the numbers, but then what are we doing to support these folks? What are we doing to create that homophily as the business literature calls it, that feeling and sense of belonging? Like that you belong here, this is your space. What are we doing to say that?
Are we just essentially like "Oh, well, we let them in so they should know what to do now that they' re here, like they're very privileged and lucky to be here." And I definitely think about this a lot. I think there needs to be, particularly now that we're using diversity to include so many things from just not just your identity as a fully abled or disabled person or your identity as a black or BIPOC person. But, I've heard institutions of prominence say that we value all kinds of diversity including diversity of thought. Well, I would hope that you include that that seems like a very basic metric.
What once was diversity, you know, is now DEI. You know, we have to include that equity, inclusion because it seems like we're moving further away, and therefore we need to have all of these extra words as almost reminders that we need to be doing this. It very much needs to be a space where it's a question of, yes, we want you here and to show that we want you here, how are we planning to support you while you're here? Because that's the inclusion piece or are we just gonna leave you to your own devices, and when you stumble and when you don't tap into that hidden curriculum, then we're going to assume that you're unworthy and that you shouldn't have been here.
It is a very reflexive, ingrained notion in this American society that it is always the individual's fault, first and foremost, before it's the institution. And I think that is, and a, a very incredible degree of societal hypnotism that we've done, uh, to get people to believe that essentially like everything out here in this world, particularly when it doesn't go their way or particularly when they're met with these barriers is because of them, and not because of the institution, the people in the institution and the barriers that were erected long before them.
[music]
Lisa Meels:
So, so what do you think is the biggest barrier you faced as a person with a disability in all of your training and education?
Daniel Woolridge:
I find that with every identity people tend to conflate a lot of experiences. For example, uh, one of my attendings who I really adore working with, wonderful human being. I said, "Sorry that I, it takes me a while to read through these patient notes. I have a learning disability. I have mild dyslexia." And her very reflexive, you know, fast thinking response was. "Well, I think that's true of all of us. We all have, you know, some degree of mild dyslexia." I'm just like, "Uh, well, I have actual like a medical diagnosis and I have these accommodations." And I could see her just like recoiling from the statement that she had just said. And I think that's what needs to happen in terms of I think we're just, we're almost sanitizing, you know, all these experiences, because it makes us uncomfortable and institutions uncomfortable to actually have to deal with the barriers and the ill experiences that folks are having. And I think it's much easier to conflate, because if you conflate everyone else's experiences, then you don't have to do anything. Because all you need to do is do something for one community and you've just fixed it for the rest of the community. And I think that's a really, really bad habit that we really need to break out of.
Lisa Meeks:
I love that you take the opportunity to do this kind of soft disclosure, right?
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
because I do think then it normalizes-
Daniel Woolridge:
Yes.
Lisa Meeks:
… this idea that we might have a disability. I, I consider what you just described as micro-aggressions. So if you say I have ADHD. They're like, "Oh gosh. Everybody does, you know, these days. We're all so distracted or, or, you know, OCD." "Oh, you know, I get really OCD too." Because it minimizes what you actually are going through, what the functional limitation is for you on a daily basis-
Daniel Woolridge:
Exactly.
Lisa Meeks:
And what you have to do, whether that's self-accommodation or accommodation through, you know, formal means what you need to do to function. And it takes a lot for anybody to disclose. So when you get to the point of disclosure and you're doing it, and then somebody invalidates it like that.
Sofia Schlozman:
In this final section, Dr. Meeks and Dr. Woolridge discuss how a student’s cultural background and upbringing can affect their ability to receive accommodations and feel included in educational spaces later in life. We conclude the episode with a message from Dr. Woolridge to BIPOC individuals seeking to enter medical professions.
Lisa Meeks:
Daniel, I want to, I want to take you back. We've talked a lot about the cultural impact for black families on this label of disability, and how families have felt the need to be protective of their children, protective, you know, of this idea of yet another label, and how the school system works to navigate the space such that, you know, we can informally do things for our students and oftentimes those are for students who are well behaved, right?
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
Or you don't get diagnosed because you're well behaved. So, when that happens, you don't start to collect this kind of trail-
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
… of being a person with a disability.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And that trail of being a person with a disability it's, it's almost like money begets money, you need money to make money.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
It's you need to have been diagnosed with a disability to get diagnosed with a disability or to be taken seriously by, you know, agencies that oversee accommodations for high-stakes testing.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And so often I find that, you know, my students that are first-gen or my students that, uh, are members of the BIPOC community, people that for one reason or another, whether it's lack of access because of socioeconomic reasons or lack of access to a diagnosis because there was these protective mechanisms in place. They don't have that breadcrumb trail, you know, to speak to when applying for accommodations on other high stakes exams.
I view this whole process as a process of privilege. There is a privilege in being the middle of the road, you know, white male, female, you're in a school system that, that immediately screens students, gets them the support that they need, gets the diagnosis that they need to be on a 504 plan.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
You know, those individuals are able to pay the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars-
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meels:
… to be re-evaluated-
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
… and, you know, to present their kind of dossier of disability, if you will, to the, to the Disability Office at their respective institutions, both at the undergraduate level and in medical school and things seem to go a lot smoother. But when applying for accommodations on high stakes exams, all of the kind of things that are present in those that have not had privilege or those that have cultural reasons for not having had this trail of disability accommodation struggle.
Daniel Woolridge:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lisa Meeks:
And they struggle mightily, and, and it may be that they don't have access to the funds to have, you know, the testing and evaluation. Maybe that they don't have the history of being evaluated. It may be that they have been so focused on building compensatory skills that they have been successful in getting by, not performing at their optimum or what would be, you know, commiserate to full access, but, you know, they're passing until they hit a level where that's not working anymore. And because they've been successful that's gonna be used against them. So that to me is a major barrier to getting full access to the kind of series of exams that follow you through your medical career and into practice. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about that?
Daniel Woolridge:
Oh many, many, Lisa. It's like you just really laid out my experience just navigating high stakes testing, and the first rejection that I received, uh, which was from the AAMC accommodations review board when I applied for accommodations with the MCAT that said pretty much because I didn't have this paper trail from way back when that, pretty much invalidated that I had a disability.
And it's, it's fascinating, because we were speaking about the hidden curriculum of medical school, but this really speaks and reeks of the hidden curriculum of life and the social and monetary capital that essentially exists in these situations for individuals who have the privilege of getting tested and identified early on, whether it's by their school or whether it's by people and their family who happen to, you know, know or have access to psychological testing services or colleagues or friends.
And I really, like that is, that is a hidden curriculum. That is medical literacy. Like if, if my parents knew that me being identified early could help me and prevent the barriers that I would experience later, if they had known, if they've been educated that having this label of a disability would help me and not stigmatize. And even the fact that they had to think about a stigma associated with that, for me, as a black boy at the time becoming a black man. That's the hidden cost that is just pretty much how we are really upholding a system of exclusion.
And for those of us who are not white and are not fully able-bodied, what that means for us to have to live up to this standard? And what it means if, you know, we actually realize later on that there was a hidden curriculum and we try to tap into those resources. and all of a sudden the institutions like, This couldn't have happened to you because you've been able to compensate. You've been able to get through this inequitable system.
So, you're fine. And I mentioned the white supremacy there because as you were saying, Lisa, often times kids don't get noticed for having a learning disability, thinking about ADHD unless they are disruptive in class, and males are more socialized to be able to be disruptive than girls are and females.
And so, you know, we see that discrepancy all the time in who gets identified, as having ADHD early and who doesn't. Where we even further see that discrepancy is we think about the behavioral disruptions that lead a child to be given the diagnosis of a learning disability like ADHD and those are the same circumstances that we see particularly black children essentially instead of being diagnosed with, with ADHD, they get diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder or they just get full-on expelled.
It's really, really, really just a bit despicable and a bit disappointing to say that, you know, you weren't identified when really there were no means for me to access the information, or my family to access the information available to know that this was going on, but another decision was made. And I have to backtrack from that decision instead of saying your child might have an issue with learning, it's a child has an issue with behavior. And definitely being black we, we, you know, we're seeing right now how we deal with "disruptive behavior of black people," particularly, uh, as they get older and what happens and how we punish, you know, that behavior. And we deal with it very, very, very differently than if the child is white.
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Lisa Meeks:
What does it mean to you to be part of the BIPOC and a healthcare provider? And then, building on that, what advice would you give to someone who's disabled and a member of the BIPOC community who is considering a career in healthcare?
Daniel Woolridge:
Yeah. I would say you are needed now more than ever, not only do we need black folks and BIPOC individuals in medicine, I mean it's like we've, we've, we have needed these individuals for some time, because, oh my goodness. This is just bringing to light how the first time, you know, my med school class heard about Tuskegee was their fourth year of medical school, right before we were about to graduate.
There's a reason why, you know, these budding doctors don't know about, you know, historical trauma against communities. And then, therefore, have no context when these, this, this community doesn't trust you, you know? And so I would say as a black person with a disability, you know, you are needed, you are valued, and just know that you are not alone. That is really, really something that I am still working through the isolation, the societal and the self-imposed, the familial. I'm just trying to navigate, my family was just trying to navigate, but we didn't know how to navigate. And this really speaks to just trying to identify those individuals like yourself, Lisa, who know how to navigate, who essentially have walked through the maze,
And they, and they know where these turns lead. They know what to do. And it's essentially, it's something that we can have assistance on. And so, I would encourage all of those folks to definitely, try to do your best to seek out and find those individuals, build your community, and there are ways to do that, because I wanna leave people with actionable ways to get this done, ways to do that as someone who is considering going into medicine is reach out to your campus or community affinity groups that are aimed at getting, uh, folks with either disabilities or, uh, folks who, uh, are identified as BIPOC into medicine.
I personally can speak to much more of the affinity organizations that help get BIPOC folks into medicine, then I can speak to the disability, the disability affinity orgs. And again, that whole reason why is really the theme of what we've been talking about, it's that like I felt I had to cover this part of my identity. So I am very much unpracticed in how to navigate, and, it should not all have to rely on me.
Like I would not be able to do this without your amazing guidance, Lisa, and, you know, there are, there's only one Lisa and the community of people who can navigate, I don't imagine it's very large, but it's so important that we find those individuals, uh, because it just helps us be seen. And once, once we meet others who can help us recognize, okay, this is normal, maybe then it can help us also see within ourselves, this is who I am. This is a part of me. This is not something that I should ever have to cover.
And just the notion that we do have to cover parts of ourselves. We should really investigate why we have to do that, why we have to choose today I need to be just black, today I have to be just disabled. Just the notion of having to choose really speaks to the insidious barriers that exist in our society that make individuals who are disadvantaged and who are not privileged. We're the ones who have to essentially follow the rule book and be prim and proper where that's not something that applies to those who do have the privileges and do have the unfair advantages.
So just identify those folks. Don't be afraid to share your story. It is okay if you have to start writing it down or doing audio journaling. I'm a big fan of audio journaling. It's how I prepare for this podcast. It's how I get my thoughts down. And it is something that I only recently started tapping back into, because I felt I had to cover my identity, I let go of all the resources that really could have helped me meet and exceed my potential. And, you know, I just don't want that for anyone,
Its just, it's, it's very hard to go and combat the disparities that you wish to combat as a healthcare provider, as a teacher, or as any member of the workforce when your first battle every day before you leave is with yourself. And so, write about your experience and practice talking about your experience. And please, you know, start identifying and looking for those orgs that can help. And it is okay if you don't feel comfortable going to them, because I didn't feel comfortable. I felt a lack of authenticity because I had covered who I was for so long and was still doing some measure of covering. That I did not even feel welcome in a space that was built to make me feel welcome. And so, I just want people to really name and recognize if they're covering, first and foremost, and really start working on finding and identifying those folks who can support them. And that's how you build your community.
Lisa Meeks:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Daniel, I said it at the beginning and I'll say it again. I have enjoyed so much just getting to know you as a person, you, everything that I've known you to have gone through in the last two years and you are so resilient and so positive. And you're just constantly reminding me about how to kind of check myself, and in my space and in the world and just stay focused on what's really important.
I think you're amazing and I can't wait to see what happens when you get out into practice. And I do believe, absolutely, especially for the individuals you will be working with that you, as a black man and as, as a person with dyslexia will have such a positive influence on this group. And, uh, I think being open about it will allow students, you know, younger individuals to just flourish and think, "You know, one day maybe I can be a doctor." and, you know, to kind of increase or expand their idea about what's possible because of the way that you represent those identities in the world.
Daniel Woolridge:
Well, thank you. I wanna thank you for creating this space for me to speak about that experience, because that's really how we start breaking down these barriers and illusions of isolation by sharing our stories and realizing that, you know, this story resonates with me. And now this has opened up possibilities that might have not been there in my mind otherwise or just questions that I didn't think I could ask myself and ask others. So thank you for making this space and giving me the stage to do this.
Sofia Schlozman:
To our guest, Dr. Woolridge, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. We are so appreciative of the honesty with which you shared your own experiences and the invaluable insight and guidance that you have provided to our audience.
To our audience, thank you so much for listening or reading along to this episode. We encourage you to listen to the other episodes in our BIPOC voices series, if you have not done so already, and we hope you will subscribe to our podcast and join us next time.
This podcast is a production of the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus Summit program, the Stanford Medicine, Stanford Medical Abilities Coalition, the Stanford Department of Radiology, and the University of Michigan Medical School Department of Family Medicine - MDisability initiative.
The opinions on this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of their respective institutions. It is released under creative commons attribution, non-commercial, non-derivative license. This episode was produced by Lisa Meeks and Sofia Schlozman.
